[Zhang Jie]

Well I am not a hater of short men since I myself am a short man, and if this thread offends any short guy I am awfully sorry, but after I checked r/shortguys, Limb Lengthening Forum, and other communities for short men specifically, I found out many short men were unmatured, apathetic, extremely depressed & depressing, etc., like they have any negative characterstic of a man that you can think of. (

I am not being pretentious about how 'outstanding' I am relative to them or saying that there are no short men who are good, but it seems to me being short for a man can spin off many other negative traits. I mean, if not only are you short but your personality, your face, your emotional intelligence, etc. are not good either, does it really matter if you are tall or short anymore? I mean of course being tall benefits in dating, some occupations, and self-esteem, but shortcels are prone to overestimating the benefits of being tall. Plus if you have an incel mindset, after getting taller, your mindset is still incel and being taller can't recover your mind that has been contaminated by being short. 

The reason why shortcels are overestimating the benefits is because they are short and height is very hard to increase after your growth plates are fused, and since everything that can't be changed matters more than everything that can be changed, your desire for the former is larger than the one for the latter, and your strong desire is picturing and overestimating how good your life will be if you are not short for you. 

[Incel]

Thank you for the interesting thread! And also thanks for how politely you explained that you're not a heightist (in Chinese: 高度主义者). It's good the shortcels and the short guys to know that we're not against them. I'm a shortcel too (in Europe, where I am from, where almost every 80% of the other males are taller than me and maybe only 10% are the same tall as me. It's a miracle to meet a shorter one from Europe and when I do I feel so proud of myself.  Kidding...)

So, my fast 1^st guess is: you're visiting shortcels' (and short guys' generally) communities which are full of men who are not successful. If you visit some successful short guys I think you'll never have this impression.

Try that: visit tallcels communities and others who are dealing with the problem called gigantism (in Chinese: 巨人症) and there compare. I think you will found out almost the same "unmatured, apathetic, extremely depressed & depressing, etc., like they have any negative characterstic of a man that you can think of."

When you're too-something (too short or too tall) and this makes your live hard, of course, you're going to be depressed and depressing, at best -- apathetic and so on.

[Zhang Jie]

Well if a post is not constructive it can't be a good post.

My suggestions for shortcels are(well maybe they are vacuous so take them or leave them):
1. Get a therapy or something like that that can recover your desparate incel mindset. You may say therapists can't change your height and they tend to just 'cope' you. Well firstly, you gotta get a therapy to get medications for your awful mental state. Secondly, why can they cope you? Isn't it because there are short men that can be used to cope? I think everyone can encounter with or know of a short man who is leading a good life can't it? Then think about why you can't be used to cope? Finally therapy is not just coping you. It contains multiple sessions and there are feedbacks per session for a therapist to analyze to recover your mental state.
2. Learn the lesson that you live for yourself, not for others. Maybe even if you could get taller, there may be someone who said you were ugly, would you consider a plastic surgery? Even if you could get it, there may be someone who said you were poor, would you consider getting richer because of what he/she said? Don't you find it ridiculous to do something just because of a man/woman's word? As for how to live yourself, well IMO if you are doing what you like to do, you can say you are living for yourself. Some shortcels seem to me they are so obsessed over their heights that they've forgotten they should live for themselves.
3. Accept that life is indeed unfair, and no one should believe in it, but that does not mean you should give it up because you are suffering from its unfairnesses. You gotta realize that being short is not the worst thing. I can name of a handful of things that are worse than being short. So you are 'luckier' than those who are suffering from worse things. Can't being luckier make you feel good?
4. Learn that, if not only are you short but also you are negative, women will not only reject you as their boyfriends but also they will reject you as 'friends', and even no men will accept you as a friend because your inferior complexity can only make them feel pale. So you can see being negative will not only be detrimental on your mental state but also make you isolated.
5. Learn that there are many things that do not require height. Learning Math, playing League of Legend, bsing on reddit, etc., neither of them require your height. So you are not mistreated when you are doing those things. Just enjoy those things that do not require being tall. There are some cases that I knew of in which a man/woman is limited in what he/she likes to do because he/she is short. Well I feel sorry for him/her, but I think you will only be limited by being eligible for doing what you like to do as a major/occupation, of course it is sad but you can still do them, and if you really like to do them, you should be motivated by yourself to do them even though  being eligible to do them as a major/occupation.

[Zhang Jie]

Thank you for the interesting thread! And also thanks for how politely you explained that you're not a heightist (in Chinese: 高度主义者). It's good the shortcels and the short guys to know that we're not against them. I'm a shortcel too (in Europe, where I am from, where almost every 80% of the other males are taller than me and maybe only 10% are the same tall as me. It's a miracle to meet a shorter one from Europe and when I do I feel so proud of myself.  Kidding...)

So, my fast 1^st guess is: you're visiting shortcels' (and short guys' generally) communities which are full of men who are not successful. If you visit some successful short guys I think you'll never have this impression.

Try that: visit tallcels communities and others who are dealing with the problem called gigantism (in Chinese: 巨人症) and there compare. I think you will found out almost the same "unmatured, apathetic, extremely depressed & depressing, etc., like they have any negative characterstic of a man that you can think of."

When you're too-something (too short or too tall) and this makes your live hard, of course, you're going to be depressed and depressing, at best -- apathetic and so on.

Heightism is indeed rampant in China now, but if you encountered with anyone who was heightism and treated you badly just because of your height, just don't treat him/her seriously either. It's 100% possible to encounter with any haters in your life for a person. If you care about your haters, this indicates deep inside your mind, you are also hating yourself more or less because of what haters hate you for.

[MSL]

 It's really good to make clear that we're not haters or discriminators. I often underline these things that, for example, I may dislike the current Japanese government but I don't hate Japanese people (I even like many of the Japanese and their stuff) or that if I am not a fan of the homosexuals it doesn't mean that I am a homophobe, etc. So, I do appreciate how well you make it clear that having an opinion about some group of people doesn't imply that you're discriminating them or willing to hurt their feelings!
 Well, now concretely about the important points:

 1. "unmatured" -- this is so common among people that you name a group and there will be someone who'll show you a lot, a lot of unmatured people there -- vegans, feminists, incels, communists, democrats... no matter what, there are and there will be a part (sometimes a bigger part) that you can call "unmatured".
 So, it's just not specific to the shorties.
 2.  "apathetic, extremely depressed & depressing" -- that's already specific but it's specific for every group (as was mentioned above already) of people who're dealing with some problem (and especially with a problem that hasn't easy solution like being disabled, being too short/too tall, being very poor, etc.)
 3. "shortcels are prone to overestimating the benefits of being tall"
 Often. And not only this type of incels:

• many of the ethnicels think that JBW (just be white) is enough; they even don't believe that mayocels (white incels) do exist.
• many of the baldcels think that if they have the hair and everything will be fine (which is true only if they're just baldcels but when you add that some are also fatcels, poorcels, oldcels, etc., the picture isn't optimistic at all.)
• many of the poorcels think that if they just money-maxx and the girls are flooding them. Well, partly true, but if you're just rich and you're disgusting in many other ways, the best you'll do is beta-buxxing.
• many of the oldcels overestimate the youth.
• many of the slimcels, framecels, etc., overestimate the gymmaxx and when they get gymmaxxed and still no girls, they wonder how is that possible. They just don't see their other problems (for example they have to add some style, some money, some knowledge, some status...)

So, I think it's normal when you have a big problem to think that once it's gone, there will be happiness and all done. But the reality isn't that simple.
 I'd like to add this little example: Most of the Chinese people are not xenophobic (we're not talking about the political course here). Maybe 80% will never say they hate foreigners or they love foreigners; maybe 15% will say they adore foreigners and maybe just 5% of all the Chinese population will be like "I hate them!"
 And here comes the example.  There are those funny, ridiculous Chinese uncles, young lads and some women who're really thinking that all the problems of Chinese are because of the foreigners and, if there are no foreigners in China, everything will be better.  So simple, huh? Or those ones (Chinese and non-Chinese) who would say that "If Japan/Russia/Israel/you-name-it doesn't exist, everything is going to be okay!"
 So, in a word, people often tend to overestimated a problem and to underestimate (or even not to notice) the rest of the problems.

[SEO]

Plus if you have an incel mindset, after getting taller, your mindset is still incel and being taller can't recover your mind that has been contaminated by being short. 

But isn't it that personality thing that they (the females) don't care at all if you can't pass the looks (and status sometimes) threshold? You know, some incels are right about it. The mind, mindset, your thoughts, your character and personality... all these, they even don't ask and don't want to know if you can't attract them first with something...

I am not saying that the mindset isn't important but I mean that if you somehow get a Chad, Brad level looks or money-maxx/status-maxx like Musk, Ma, Trump, etc., then do you think they care about your mindset?

I remember these comparisons:

Incel + shy = women think "what a loser! "
Chad + shy = women think "what a cute guy! "
Incel + confident = women think "what a creep! "
Chad + confident = women think "what a great man!    "

[MSL]

you gotta get a therapy to get medications for your awful mental state.

Only if you're psychotic. Don't ruin your health with medicines (many of them full of side effects) just because you have some hypodepression (低抑郁, 抑郁症, 轻性抑郁症). There are many other therapeutic ways, including sports therapy, work therapy (工作疗法) and so on, which may prevent you ruining your young body with medicines.

It contains multiple sessions and there are feedbacks per session for a therapist to analyze to recover your mental state.

 The psychotherapies are a way better way (when the psychotherapist isn't some medicine oriented who is just planning how to sell you medicines) but you have to be lucky to find a really good one. Otherwise your situation may get worse or, in a better case, to lose any hope about the psychotherapy.


 

Don't you find it ridiculous to do something just because of a man/woman's word?

 Depends on who is that man/woman. If it's just another Chad or just another Becky, okay, you may ignore them but what if this is your idol, your one-it-is, your best teacher (tutor) who you do respect a lot? Or what if, in the reality this is the case, this is the majority of the females you like? Look, you may live for yourself if you're not living in a society or you're able to be self-sufficient, let's say -- a volcel. Cool. But if you can't and you don't want to? Then, well, you have to adapt yourself more or less to the desires, expectations of the majority of those who you like. They prefer richer, fitter (body wise), educated (for example)... then you should, at least, give it a try! Especially if the thing (for example, the money, the muscles, the knowledge) is good for you! Do you understand? If they like something that is good for you too (for example to be richer and to be stronger), then you 100% have the sense to do your best. But if they're some crazy or degraded people who want you to be something bad (like a gangster), you don't need blindly to obey (to follow) their tastes!

As for how to live yourself, well IMO if you are doing what you like to do, you can say you are living for yourself. Some shortcels seem to me they are so obsessed over their heights that they've forgotten they should live for themselves.

Easy to say if you have granted income (like rich parents). What if you're one of those who even since the childhood have to go to work in some factory or on the field? How you're doing what you like to do if you're working at least 8 hours some heavy and/or stressful job and when you're back home you have to deal with washing clothes, some cooking, taking a shower... and then you feel so tired that you even can't do your hobby (like running or even just playing a PC game)?

Most of the people are so dependable of their jobs and duties that they just can't do what they like to do. Usually the thing you like to do, isn't profitable. For example, you like reading books and nobody pays you for this, moreover you have to pay for the books.

 I hope you know what's to be poor and to be a working poor? Like you work 22 days or more in a months and your salary is enough just to pay your utilities bills, some food, some clothes and... maybe to go to a bar once or to visit a cinema...

I can name of a handful of things that are worse than being short. So you are 'luckier' than those who are suffering from worse things. Can't being luckier make you feel good?

 Good point but it is good to be continued with "And once you're luckier, start to compensate your shortness with other good traits like build a better body, a better health, try a new major, new income, upgrade, maxx everything you can."

Learn that, if not only are you short but also you are negative, women will not only reject you as their boyfriends but also they will reject you as 'friends', and even no men will accept you as a friend because your inferior complexity can only make them feel pale. So you can see being negative will not only be detrimental on your mental state but also make you isolated.

 That's right. 2 bad traits > 1 bad trait.

Learn that there are many things that do not require height. Learning Math, playing League of Legend, being on reddit, etc.

  What a good conclusion with such lame examples. Okay, learning math (sort of edu-maxx) may be accepted as a good one, but instead giving them good idea how to compensate their shortness (build muscles, search for higher earnings, look for a place with shorter females -- gymmaxx, moneymaxx, geomaxx), you're teaching them how to enjoy being gamers or wasting time on a website which doesn't pay them anything? What's the result after many years of watching a screen sitting down (playing game or reading something on a website)? I'll tell you what: you'll be still short + you'll have problems with your health (eyes, waist, abnormal weight maybe... all these "benefits" of the sedentary lifestyle (久坐的生活方式).)
 
 Please, for your own sake, if you're a shortcel, realize that you're already in enough bad situation to afford the luxury of being a gamer, wasting time on websites that do not pay you anything or everything else related to the sedentary lifestyle! You need to focus on your better health and better body first and then compensate more with status, money, etc.! Do it until it's not too late.

[Incel]

These 2 points worth to be repeated:

• Only if you're from a rich family you can do what you like to do; otherwise you have to go to work or struggle with the poverty;  struggle with the unemployment and you have no way just to do what you like to do.
• Being a shortcel is already fucked up situation and if you make it worse with wasting precious time with games and working for free for a website, then you're not maxxing yourself (no muscles, no better capital, no better location with shortie females, no chance for you to ascend, ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, even worse, you're minning yourself to the worst and from a 4/10 shortcel you're becoming a 1/10 short fat-ass, ill and more unhappy losercel.)

[Alexa]

Many of the incels are short in emotional and in intellectual intelligence. If they weren't most of them will find ways to improve themselves to the levels in where they can have a moderately acceptable female.

What you can think of a short man who is all day long complaining online (instead of working out, making money, learning skills and methods or just move to a better for him place)? Short EQ and short IQ surely.

The clever men go to work on themselves in the libraries, gyms, sports, jobs, immigrate at least for a better life and they don't stop fighting for a better day. The losers who prefer to stay losers only post how unfair is everything or get drunk, get high, get in trouble.

[Zhang Jie]

you gotta get a therapy to get medications for your awful mental state.

Only if you're psychotic. Don't ruin your health with medicines (many of them full of side effects) just because you have some hypodepression (低抑郁, 抑郁症, 轻性抑郁症). There are many other therapeutic ways, including sports therapy, work therapy (工作疗法) and so on, which may prevent you ruining your young body with medicines.

It contains multiple sessions and there are feedbacks per session for a therapist to analyze to recover your mental state.

 The psychotherapies are a way better way (when the psychotherapist isn't some medicine oriented who is just planning how to sell you medicines) but you have to be lucky to find a really good one. Otherwise your situation may get worse or, in a better case, to lose any hope about the psychotherapy.


 

Don't you find it ridiculous to do something just because of a man/woman's word?

 Depends on who is that man/woman. If it's just another Chad or just another Becky, okay, you may ignore them but what if this is your idol, your one-it-is, your best teacher (tutor) who you do respect a lot? Or what if, in the reality this is the case, this is the majority of the females you like? Look, you may live for yourself if you're not living in a society or you're able to be self-sufficient, let's say -- a volcel. Cool. But if you can't and you don't want to? Then, well, you have to adapt yourself more or less to the desires, expectations of the majority of those who you like. They prefer richer, fitter (body wise), educated (for example)... then you should, at least, give it a try! Especially if the thing (for example, the money, the muscles, the knowledge) is good for you! Do you understand? If they like something that is good for you too (for example to be richer and to be stronger), then you 100% have the sense to do your best. But if they're some crazy or degraded people who want you to be something bad (like a gangster), you don't need blindly to obey (to follow) their tastes!

As for how to live yourself, well IMO if you are doing what you like to do, you can say you are living for yourself. Some shortcels seem to me they are so obsessed over their heights that they've forgotten they should live for themselves.

Easy to say if you have granted income (like rich parents). What if you're one of those who even since the childhood have to go to work in some factory or on the field? How you're doing what you like to do if you're working at least 8 hours some heavy and/or stressful job and when you're back home you have to deal with washing clothes, some cooking, taking a shower... and then you feel so tired that you even can't do your hobby (like running or even just playing a PC game)?

Most of the people are so dependable of their jobs and duties that they just can't do what they like to do. Usually the thing you like to do, isn't profitable. For example, you like reading books and nobody pays you for this, moreover you have to pay for the books.

 I hope you know what's to be poor and to be a working poor? Like you work 22 days or more in a months and your salary is enough just to pay your utilities bills, some food, some clothes and... maybe to go to a bar once or to visit a cinema...

I can name of a handful of things that are worse than being short. So you are 'luckier' than those who are suffering from worse things. Can't being luckier make you feel good?

 Good point but it is good to be continued with "And once you're luckier, start to compensate your shortness with other good traits like build a better body, a better health, try a new major, new income, upgrade, maxx everything you can."

Learn that, if not only are you short but also you are negative, women will not only reject you as their boyfriends but also they will reject you as 'friends', and even no men will accept you as a friend because your inferior complexity can only make them feel pale. So you can see being negative will not only be detrimental on your mental state but also make you isolated.

 That's right. 2 bad traits > 1 bad trait.

Learn that there are many things that do not require height. Learning Math, playing League of Legend, being on reddit, etc.

  What a good conclusion with such lame examples. Okay, learning math (sort of edu-maxx) may be accepted as a good one, but instead giving them good idea how to compensate their shortness (build muscles, search for higher earnings, look for a place with shorter females -- gymmaxx, moneymaxx, geomaxx), you're teaching them how to enjoy being gamers or wasting time on a website which doesn't pay them anything? What's the result after many years of watching a screen sitting down (playing game or reading something on a website)? I'll tell you what: you'll be still short + you'll have problems with your health (eyes, waist, abnormal weight maybe... all these "benefits" of the sedentary lifestyle (久坐的生活方式).)
 
 Please, for your own sake, if you're a shortcel, realize that you're already in enough bad situation to afford the luxury of being a gamer, wasting time on websites that do not pay you anything or everything else related to the sedentary lifestyle! You need to focus on your better health and better body first and then compensate more with status, money, etc.! Do it until it's not too late.

Working 22 hours a day or something like is even not rampant in China and that means you only have two hours to rest. If you are a working poor, well admittedly my definition of 'living for yourself' was not proper enough. If you couldn't do what you like even not as an occupation then at least you should know how to 'self-care', subsuming not caring others' comments on you. This is kinda hard particularly if the commenter is your idol or someone you give respects to like you say, but why do you still consider him/her as your idol or someone you should respect if he/she does not like your height? You should know he/she is not worthy of your time. Well for me I can get rid of the obsessions with some important people in my life if he/she does not like my height. I don't think it is wise to be still obsessed with someone important but like that.

[Incel]

If you care about your haters, this indicates deep inside your mind, you are also hating yourself more or less because of what haters hate you for.

It depends. Some people enjoy having haters. I know one who shows his rich dinners and lunches (full of food and drinks that the ordinary people can't afford) only to make the haters jealous and to hate him more and more.
But other people are very sensitive; some even commit suicides because of online hate, which for others is "just an insignificant joke".
I think it depends who the hater is. If he's somebody you never met, from another country, probably you don't give a damn but what if it's the boss of the local mafia who you know very well and maybe he knows you too because you're living in the same district? It's "a bit" different, right and then you have to care.

[Incel]

MSL:

22 days or more in a months

  LibGenSavedMyMoney:

Working 22 hours a day

Yes, we understand each other well.

[Alexa]

I do agree we shouldn't think and care more than necessary.

[MSL]

 Well, I meant the typical 20-22 working days in a month (when you rest for 2 days in a week). 22 hours/day is kind of slavery.
 Oh, sure, if they do care only about the height, it's sort of unacceptable but what I meant is the complex of their expectations, understandings, views. Let's say "they" (or "he"/"she") thinks that you should have own house, good job or own business and being in good shape (if not very fit, at least not an obese guy). And then, it's good to pay some attention to these good expectations and to try your best (better than being the opposite -- a homeless, unemployed and with ruined body, right?)
 When their/his/her expectations are also good for you, you should give it your best try. But not if they're some evil people, for example, who'll make you to try bad things like becoming a gangster, joining aggressive armies, being a scammer and so on.

[SEO]

Arthur·Jensen

wow interesting new nickname.