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Normal Incels (Incels Without Hate) => A forum for incels who are normal people (no terrorists, no rapists, no racists, no pedophiles, no haters and so on) => Topic started by: Aquonut on January 05, 2024, 05:46:03 PM
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I think western social media platforms etc.
I found this interesting phenomenon by the rates of the guy the post contains that was made to ask whether I was aesthetically eccentric if you can remember.
The same guy was thought of as 7-8/10 by a western Chinese(what's more his rate was not very far away from the rates of the majority of 'aesthetically westernalized' guys) but only 6 or so by native Chineses.
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Btw, I learned from a guy invested in Aesthetics that, rating is supposed to be as accurate as possible and the more aesthetic knowledges you learn, the more accurate your rate is.
So if you really want to get the rates of you in photo, you should ask for the 'experts'' rates with adequate photos, instead of asking for looksmaxxers' rates, the rates of the users of r/truerateme, etc.., namely amateurs' rates.
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Isn't it simply because of the concrete, given culture standards?
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It's quite normal the different cultures and subcultures to share different aesthetics values (points of views). What's "aesthetically eccentric", please define it. :)
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How you can be a professional in aesthetics when there is a huge cultural gap? For example, for many Chinese a pig is something "cute" but for many Westerners it's something "dirty". Or "the white is pretty" VS "the tan (darker) is pretty"? And "the big nose is pretty" VS "the small nose is pretty"?... It's not very easy to be a pro in aesthetics. :)
Also, think about it: most of the people aren't pros. So? You should get "likes" from the ordinary people, from the mass. The experts are like 0.0001% or less of the mass... and even they think you're perfect how it will help you the girl you want to likes you? (She is highly likely not going to be a pro). ;D :)
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How you can be a professional in aesthetics when there is a huge cultural gap? For example, for many Chinese a pig is something "cute" but for many Westerners it's something "dirty". Or "the white is pretty" VS "the tan (darker) is pretty"? And "the big nose is pretty" VS "the small nose is pretty"?... It's not very easy to be a pro in aesthetics. :)
Also, think about it: most of the people aren't pros. So? You should get "likes" from the ordinary people, from the mass. The experts are like 0.0001% or less of the mass... and even they think you're perfect how it will help you the girl you want to likes you? (She is highly likely not going to be a pro). ;D :)
Of course, but tbh you misunderstood what I meant by 'accurate'. Here is the analogy I have for the demonstration:
Let's compare 'non-experts' to 'those who give estimations of your height just by the observations, say, "observers', ', and compare 'experts' to 'qualified anthropometers' when you are trying to know your height.
Experts are only like 0.0001% or less of the general population, but do you think you should believe the measures of anthropometers, or the estimations of observers, analogous to 'non-experts'?
Non-experts rate you with 'errors of feelings', viz, the rates given by non-experts are very influnced by their feelings, which causes errors, while the rates given by experts are way less influnced by their feelings.
Rating is subjective per se of course, but that does not mean you should validate errors of feelings, which deflate or inflate the true level of your face(for example, a girl favors pretty boy a lot, and when she rates a pretty boy who is actually only slightly above average, she will give a rate of like 8-9/10, in extreme cases the rate can be 10/10. Is that because the boy is really that handsome? No, he has a bulky nose, he has acnes, he does not have a defind jaw, etc., but because he is a pretty boy, the girl rates him with errors of feelings, while actually he is just slightly above average, not that outstanding compared to all of men)
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How you can be a professional in aesthetics when there is a huge cultural gap? For example, for many Chinese a pig is something "cute" but for many Westerners it's something "dirty". Or "the white is pretty" VS "the tan (darker) is pretty"? And "the big nose is pretty" VS "the small nose is pretty"?... It's not very easy to be a pro in aesthetics. :)
Also, think about it: most of the people aren't pros. So? You should get "likes" from the ordinary people, from the mass. The experts are like 0.0001% or less of the mass... and even they think you're perfect how it will help you the girl you want to likes you? (She is highly likely not going to be a pro). ;D :)
Of course, but tbh you misunderstood what I meant by 'accurate'. Here is the analogy I have for the demonstration:
Let's compare 'non-experts' to 'those who give estimations of your height just by the observations, say, "observers', ', and compare 'experts' to 'qualified anthropometers' when you are trying to know your height.
Experts are only like 0.0001% or less of the general population, but do you think you should believe the measures of anthropometers, or the estimations of observers, analogous to 'non-experts'?
Non-experts rate you with 'errors of feelings', viz, the rates given by non-experts are very influnced by their feelings, which causes errors, while the rates given by experts are way less influnced by their feelings.
Rating is subjective per se of course, but that does not mean you should validate errors of feelings, which deflate or inflate the true level of your face(for example, a girl favors pretty boy a lot, and when she rates a pretty boy who is actually only slightly above average, she will give a rate of like 8-9/10, in extreme cases the rate can be 10/10. Is that because the boy is really that handsome? No, he has a bulky nose, he has acnes, he does not have a defind jaw, etc., but because he is a pretty boy, the girl rates him with errors of feelings, while actually he is just slightly above average, not that outstanding compared to all of men)
Oh sorry 'men' compared to all of 'men' shoulda been 'people', since rate is 'absolute'.
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The height is measurable but the beauty isn't. A fat white woman with big nose may be ugly in urbanized parts of Europe but very attractive in some Asian Muslim village community. How and who measures the aesthetics? There are no common criteria for aesthetic "measurement." For some artist the pretty is Autumn 🍁🥮, but for another one it's the summer 🏝️🌞... You like tall, white, blond women, I like short, dark-yellow South-East Asian women... Where is the common criterion?
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the more aesthetic knowledges you learn, the more accurate your rate is.
;D So, there are those guys that will teach me that if I think that a sunflower is prettier than a rose, I am wrong and I should like the rose more? Or that if I think the tigers are more handsome than the rabbits I have to prefer the rabbits because some aesthetics said so? C'mon, are you serious that the aesthetics can be as exact as the math or around that level?
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If that aesthetics professional forces people to accept his view? How for example, he proves that the long ear is prettier than the short ear and vice versa? :) :D Some tribes like long ears. I don't but they do. And here comes the professional to tell us who is right and who isn't because he knows better? Why/how? ;D
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Is he a self proclaimed one?
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The height is measurable but the beauty isn't. A fat white woman with big nose may be ugly in urbanized parts of Europe but very attractive in some Asian Muslim village community. How and who measures the aesthetics? There are no common criteria for aesthetic "measurement." For some artist the pretty is Autumn 🍁🥮, but for another one it's the summer 🏝️🌞... You like tall, white, blond women, I like short, dark-yellow South-East Asian women... Where is the common criterion?
I mean, yeah indeed there is no common criterion, but just because of that you need to give a rate that is as accurate as possible by eliminating errors of feelings by as more as possible. Of course you can argue that as long as this boy is 10/10 to those girls who favor him it does not matter what he is, but I mean if you really want to get an objective enough rate, you should resort to aesthetic experts.
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Is he a self proclaimed one?
He claimed that he had learned Aesthetics for a while and we are in the same group and he indeed seems to me very expertise. So he is neither a liar nor a self-boasted one.
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The height is measurable but the beauty isn't. A fat white woman with big nose may be ugly in urbanized parts of Europe but very attractive in some Asian Muslim village community. How and who measures the aesthetics? There are no common criteria for aesthetic "measurement." For some artist the pretty is Autumn 🍁🥮, but for another one it's the summer 🏝️🌞... You like tall, white, blond women, I like short, dark-yellow South-East Asian women... Where is the common criterion?
My 'I doubt that I am aesthetically eccentric' affair happened because an American S.Korean argued that this guy was 7/10 while I claimed that this boy was 5.5-6(in this photo) or so like me because I asked for rates beforehand(I posted another better photo though. This photo is worse so I thought this photo was expected to be rated as only 5.5-6/10) and he thought I was delusional:
http://www.seo-forum-seo-luntan.com/a-forum-for-incels-who-are-normal-people-no-terrorists-no-rapists-no-racists-no-pedophiles-no-haters-and-so-on/am-i-eccentric-or-this-guy-is-really-not-710-or-even-higher/
And after I asked for rates on looksmaxxing forum I concluded that the inconsistency of the rates of the same by by native people and non-native people was due to social media and else, and he still laughted at me being delusional. I think he just does not want to admit my point is correct. I've asked 8 native Chineses and only one of them rated that guy as 7. The rest of them rated him as only 6 and like 5 of them said we were on the same level and one of them even said I looked better than him because my features were more delicate. So 6 of 8 said either were we on the same level or even I looked better than him. One of the rest of them also just rated that guy as only 6 and me as 5. Only 1 of 8 rated him as 7.
But of course it is not strange since we were in an IQ-related community. Guess the majority of people there are aggressive and unopen lol.
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The height is measurable but the beauty isn't. A fat white woman with big nose may be ugly in urbanized parts of Europe but very attractive in some Asian Muslim village community. How and who measures the aesthetics? There are no common criteria for aesthetic "measurement." For some artist the pretty is Autumn 🍁🥮, but for another one it's the summer 🏝️🌞... You like tall, white, blond women, I like short, dark-yellow South-East Asian women... Where is the common criterion?
My 'I doubt that I am aesthetically eccentric' affair happened because an American S.Korean argued that this guy was 7/10 while I claimed that this boy was 5.5-6(in this photo) or so like me because I asked for rates beforehand(I posted another better photo though. This photo is worse so I thought this photo was expected to be rated as only 5.5-6/10) and he thought I was delusional:
http://www.seo-forum-seo-luntan.com/a-forum-for-incels-who-are-normal-people-no-terrorists-no-rapists-no-racists-no-pedophiles-no-haters-and-so-on/am-i-eccentric-or-this-guy-is-really-not-710-or-even-higher/
And after I asked for rates on looksmaxxing forum I concluded that the inconsistency of the rates of the same by by native people and non-native people was due to social media and else, and he still laughted at me being delusional. I think he just does not want to admit my point is correct. I've asked 8 native Chineses and only one of them rated that guy as 7. The rest of them rated him as only 6 and like 5 of them said we were on the same level and one of them even said I looked better than him because my features were more delicate. So 6 of 8 said either were we on the same level or even I looked better than him. One of the rest of them also just rated that guy as only 6 and me as 5. Only 1 of 8 rated him as 7.
But of course it is not strange since we were in an IQ-related community. Guess the majority of people there are aggressive and unopen lol.
1 of those 6 who said that was even the 'aesthetic expert' I mentioned.
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And you started to believe him that the aesthetics is something like the math, the statistics, the physics? :-\
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Can you explain how he justifies some statement like "Long hair is prettier than short hair."? Where are the roots, the bases of the judgement?
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Bro, be frank: do you decided to believe in the "objective aesthetics" just because the "pro guy" rated you higher and better? ;)
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Bro, be frank: do you decided to believe in the "objective aesthetics" just because the "pro guy" rated you higher and better? ;)
You know how irritating misprojection is right :P. I believe him just because what he said makes sense.
Also he rated me(5.5/10), pretty much up there with others' rates.
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Can you explain how he justifies some statement like "Long hair is prettier than short hair."? Where are the roots, the bases of the judgement?
Oh sorry, I forgot to say that, yeah it's true whether a trait is good or not 'depends on individual', but an aesthetic expert can rate and evaluate your face very accurately. He himself also said that indeed aesthetic evaluation couldn't even be 'right'. It's really nonsensical to claim your evaluation is right. What he managed to construe is actually that an expert can evaluate your face most comprehensively and most detailedly(non-experts ignore many of your facial details as another contribution to the errors of rate).
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I learned aesthetics in university. It is a philosophy's part. Our professor cited a clever man who said: the pretty or beautiful is: white, smooth, small, light (not heavy), right? Well then, the ideal is an egg! 🥚
What constitutes an expert when it comes to the faces? You can be an expert who states that Mona Lisa is the best but when most of the modern men do not like her, this aesthetic criterion is becoming useless. There is not expertise when it comes to tastes. If you think a girl is ugly but the experts rate her "ptetty" it's not making her really pretty to you. The aesthetics world is generally freedom of choice. The key is to know what tastes dominate right now and to try to become something like that (for example if you live amongst tribal people who like fat belly, you can afford a beer belly.)
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I learned aesthetics in university. It is a philosophy's part. Our professor cited a clever man who said: the pretty or beautiful is: white, smooth, small, light (not heavy), right? Well then, the ideal is an egg! 🥚
What constitutes an expert when it comes to the faces? You can be an expert who states that Mona Lisa is the best but when most of the modern men do not like her, this aesthetic criterion is becoming useless. There is not expertise when it comes to tastes. If you think a girl is ugly but the experts rate her "ptetty" it's not making her really pretty to you. The aesthetics world is generally freedom of choice. The key is to know what tastes dominate right now and to try to become something like that (for example if you live amongst tribal people who like fat belly, you can afford a beer belly.)
I don't think you should confuse philosophy with real aesthetics.
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In Europe, in the biggest South-Eastern University the major Philosophy included Logic, Aesthetics, Political philosophy, Eastern philosophy, etc. You didn't know the Aesthetics is a philosophical part?
Check this, from the Chinese Wikipedia: "美学（英语：aesthetics），或依原意可译作感觉学，是以对美的本质及其意义的研究为主题的学科，乃哲学其中一个重要分支。" https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/美学 (https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/美学) See? "an important branch of philosophy." The so-called "real aesthetics" is nothing but the part of the theoretical aesthetics, i. e. not that deep and not that complicated. Usually based on current trends (fashions).
Think about it: why before there were fans of the Ruben's type females (comparable with the Tang dynasty's aesthetic when it comes about bodies and looks): (https://arthive.net/res/media/img/oy800/work/aa8/198425.webp), (http://en.chinaculture.org/library/att/att/20030924/cfu11_01.jpg). Well? Aesthetics...
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Good examples! :D
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Oh, yes and yes.
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Sure.